Bart
Hanson
Live at the Bike Commentator
&
Professional Poker Player
Life’s
A Bluff
- Interview -
Bicycle Casino
October 2006
Matt Waldron
Many
times we are absolutely inundated with images, interviews and tips
from poker pros. It is a blessing and a curse.
A blessing; as it lets us get to know the big stars and try to glean
a little bit of their genius to add to our games. A curse; as it
tends to be general, reprocessed and sanitized for whatever publication
is swapping Q rating (marketability and public recognition quotient.)
for a personality profile and safe Q & A for the player of the
moment. TV is no better, editing the play and commentary to fit neatly
and flawlessly into their time slot. But how many of these players
or commentators lay that expertise on the line almost every night
in front of thousands? How many do it without the benefit of tape
editors and copy writers? Almost none. One of the few that does is
poker professional and commentator for the nightly web cast “Live
at the Bike”, Bart Hanson.
Every night
between 7pm and 10pm Pacific time (the only existing advantage
for online poker related activities for those living on
the ‘left’ cost) Bart and his poker hetro-lifemate Dave
Tuchman break down high stakes, no-limit poker action for the world
to see. The commentary is live, off the cuff, insightful and invaluable
for anyone looking to multiply the success factor in their cash game.
No cue cards, no editing in post, no punches pulled, its all laid
out there every night. The small crew that does this incredible job
live works together seamlessly with a fluidity that any nightly news
team would envy. The magic can be found (for a paltry price) at www.liveatthebike.com.
I recently caught
up with Bart during the Bicycle Casino’s
Big Poker Oktober (yes, it’s spelled that way) in Bell Gardens,
California. When I was first introduced to Bart, it was a few hours
before showtime and he was doing what he does best – and what
he does for a living – playing poker. The 5-10 $500 minimum
buy in game can play pretty big and that night was no exception.
From the 8 seat, behind small, reflective lenses, Bart watched all
the action hawkishly and commanded the pace of the game and the betting.
Truly a professional at work and at home in his favorite game. We
would catch up outside the Bike the next day, after sitting in on
the show the night before, to enjoy a Cuban cigar and talk a little
poker. Here is how it went down:
LAB:
So we’re here with Bart Hanson doing a little bit of
a Cuban cigar smoke outside the Bicycle Casino in lovely Bell Gardens.
They’re actually doing a lot for developing the area, the one
thing, the only thing the Bike might lack is location. It’s
a little bit outside in the area, but it’s in Southern California
(LA adjacent), so you still get some of the best games. What do think
about the Bike in general?
BH: I really like the cigar, I can tell you that.
LAB: Good, glad to bring it!
BH:
(laughs) Yeah, the Bike is pretty centrally located amongst everything;
you’ve got Commerce right to the, kind of right
to the east, Hollywood Park and the Hustler right to the west and
others but people come here not necessarily because of location.
I think those places might be a little closer for people, this is
in the middle, so people come. . …speak of the devil, there’s
Alan (sic: a Live at the Bike regular) coming in.
BH:
People come because they know the Bike, they like the homey atmosphere
of it,
they like the people and the range of games and
game selection. (Author’s Note: Another compliment to the Bike
-- all the different games and buy in levels they offer. The bank
roll builders (small buy in no-limit), the hundred, the two hundred,
the three hundred NL games as well as stud and stud hi-low, Crazy
Pineapple, Omaha and Omaha 8/b, Mixed Games, Chinese Poker, Mexican
Poker, Limit and NL Hold ‘Em makes it one of the best places
in the world to learn the full range of poker and how to play it
live.) All of these thing build together so, they don’t necessarily
come for location, because there’s probably a room closer,
they come because everything here is done so well and so broadly.
Person
1 : what’s
up buddy?
BH: heeey. . .
(side conversations)
LAB: You want to tell people what we just heard there?
BH:
Sure. . .that was Kenna James who came by. We actually bought – David
and I – bought a weekend lesson with him at his house for charity.
He’s sponsored by Sun Poker and Sun Poker put together a party
at the end of the World Series at the Rio in the Palazzo suites and
they were helping the charity, the Wounded Warrior Project, that
helps injured soldiers returning from action adjust to civilian life.
We bought a few things at the charity auction. We bought a cowboy
hat and a weekend or a weekday tournament lessons from him, so we’re
trying to get that set up.
LAB: Is that the one I saw in your office signed by Doyle, Kenna
and Barry and everybody else?
BH: Yeah, yeah.
LAB:
Sweet souvenir.
BH:
Yeah, yeah. Kenna and I have known each other for a long time
now. Well, I
mean 2 years ‘a long time’, but it’s
been awhile and he’s been really supportive of Live at the
Bike and we wanted to help supported him, or at least his charities.
Of course he got 2nd place last year here at Legends (sic: The WPT
Bicycle Legends of Poker Tournament). And yeah, he’s actually
just coming off a bet, he’s lost a lot of weight because he
had a prop bet with Mike Sexton about weight, so he dropped like
30-40 pounds.
LAB: Who else was in that, was Gavin Smith in that too? I heard
a lot of people were in some kind of weight loss bet? Matasow, a
few other guys?
BH:
I’m not sure exactly, I just knew it was Sexton, him and
then they teamed up. I know he dropped some weight. But I haven’t
seen him for a little while. He’s been in Vegas obviously,
and he said he’s just in town this weekend so he can play here.
(a little chat
with Kenna on what counts and what doesn’t
for Card Player points omitted for your reading pleasure.)
LAB: OK, a small interruption, but we might be talking to Kenna
James a little bit later. It should be nice. Alright, a few of the
things I was going to ask about, just some strategy tips, because
I think you guys give some of the best in-depth, hand by hand cash
game advice.
So
my particular question is “how do you feel about continuation
and probe bets and their frequency?” How do you balance “I’ve
missed, but they probably missed too, so I need to bet” vs. “I’ve
just missed this thing and I’ve done two or three probe bets
and they are starting to get onto it/I need to let this go.”
BH:
Usually if you’re in position, especially on the flop,
and its short handed, I mean 2 players or less (definitely heads
up) and it gets checked to you, you probably should bet. Because
chances are they missed. The only time that I won’t do a continuation
bet, is if I open out of position, early position with A K suited
and I got four callers and I’ve got A K of clubs and the flop
comes 6 7 8 all hearts. There you don’t want to continuation
bet out of position. There are some flops you got to look at the
texture of the board. Even if you are in position on a flop like
that and the flop was 6 7 8 with 2 hearts there’s 4 people,
and you’re in position, I might just give up on it. Chances
are your opponents are going to miss the flop just like you are,
but you really have to look at the texture of the board. You can
make continuation bets against non-draw-happy boards because if you
get called, you know exactly where you’re at. You know, if
the flop comes Q 7 2, or say you’ve been raised with J 10 suited
and the flop comes A 7 2 Rainbow and there are four people in there
and it got checked to you, I would probably bet out there with an
A or a K, that is the time I would continuation bet. Because you
have to find out, no one else is going to call you unless they have
an A, so if you bet and you get called, you know where you’re
at, where as a more draw heavy board, something like 9 10 7 with
2 spades, and you had A Q and you bet there, you might get called
from a couple spots and if you have no idea if someone’s calling
you with the 9 or the draw. So it has to do with the texture of the
board, and its different variables.
LAB:
Solid answer. When you’re ready to sit down to a cash
game, game selection is one of the most important things to consider.
Outside the obvious ideas of cash management and bankroll (which
is where most interviews immediately start), how do you recommend
that your average player, looking to sit down into the action pretty
quickly, selects their game? Specifically, if it is their first time
in a particular Card Room or Casino?
BH:
Well, if you don’t know the players, it’s a little
difficult. I mean I would suggest you sitting down and maybe not
play for a round, don’t post your blinds. Just kinda watch.
I don’t think it’s going to take that long to figure
out how the game is and some of the characteristics of the players
in the game. But you definitely have to pay attention if you don’t
know the players. You start getting into routine if you play live
a lot, where you start going into the same places, you start knowing
the players. Like here I know most of the players in the player pool,
so I don’t have to worry about, necessarily watching them.
Now some people are looking for the game that best fits their style.
I mean, my co-commentator, Dave Tuchman, he likes a weak/tight game,
he doesn’t necessarily want to see a crazy game, but he wants
to see a game that he can run over. You know, that’s a game
that I like as well, you know you can drive the action, but the thing
about no-limit is that it only takes one player, especially if that
one player is a fish and he has a lot of money, that’s all
you need. It can be the eight best players in the world, you and
the other guy, or seven best players in the world, that one player
can make the game, especially if he has a lot of money. But if you
sit down and you see a couple live ones, but they only have $500,
that’s not that great of a game because you obviously you can’t
win that much. So, you got to look at the stack size, the types of
players in the game and what game best suits you.
LAB:
I ran into that a little bit last night, had some interesting
stories, you
would have loved that game. I’m not sure I was
able to capitalize on it properly. How would you go about working
the restricted buy in games?
BH:
The thing about those restricted buy-in games that make them
so profitable:
if you sit in the highest spread restricted buying
game, which here at the Bike is 5-5-3-5 (sic. 5-5 antes with a $300-500
buy in). It’s really good because, if you get deep, if you’re
planning on playing that game, and you’re not waiting to get
into a bigger game if you get deep and you’re comfortable playing
deep, you can make opponents make a lot of mistakes and make them
pay because the thing about that game is that those guys aren’t
that experienced playing deep so you can really stack them on one
of their hands. I mean guys in the $500 game that are more experienced,
but if a guy’s got $3,000 and you end up having him covered,
he doesn’t know how to play that deep in terms of pot control,
just doing certain things to get the most amount of money in when
you’re deep, that’s a good thing about some restricted
games when you get deep. Now saying that, a lot of casinos their
highest level restricted game though, I don’t like because
the blinds are too big. Like Commerce has got a $400 buy-in game,
that’s the highest restricted game, the blinds are $5-$10.
so unless you’re really going to commit eight hours there,
in order for you to get your stack up you got to gamble up in the
beginning, I just look at why don’t I just play here at a 5-5
and that’s gonna do it.
LAB:
That’s the next obvious question. At this point is, when
you sit down to an uncapped buy in table and you’re buying
for $1,000 at a $500 minimum game, which should be a decent seat,
but sit down and look at your game and there’s guys with 3-4-6
thousand around the table who’ve probably been camping it for
a few hours. Is this the wrong game for you? Do you need to start
looking for a table change?
BH:
No, no, because in an unrestricted game, stack size is pretty
much irrelevant
in terms of game selection being different. I mean
it’s relevant in game selection if you have a bad player you
may want to cover them, but if it’s a cash game, people, I
don’t understand why they get it in their head. I think its
a little tournament mentality, you can sit in that game with $1,000
and it doesn’t matter that the other guy has got $11,000. You
still only have $1,000 in front of you, that means he only has $1,000
gain, that $1000 you can lose. Stack size is irrelevant when it comes
to that type of thing. Now, the other thing too, is they don’t
necessarily have to have been camped out there; they could bought
into for that. That’s the thing about an unrestricted game.
There’s some advantages playing on the short stack in those
games too because if you buy in for $500 and the guy’s got
$11,000 and he’s a real gambler a lot of times he doesn’t
realize he can’t call your raises with pocket pairs and suited
connectors. If you’re raising more then 50 pre-flop in a 5-10
game he should not be calling you with things like small pocket pairs
and suited connectors because you only have $500. And that’s
the power of the short stack; people really can’t call your
raises because they already know the pot odds.
LAB: On a cap game or something like that, like $300-600, or here
the $300-$500, where do like to buy in, do you go straight to the
cap, or is there something to it buying in low there?
BH:
Yeah, usually I’ll go right up to the cap just ‘cause
I have the bankroll to play in those games, and I think it’s
the best way because, again, in those games, I think people , the
more money they have in front of them, the more mistakes they can
make and the more money I can win from them.
LAB: What do
you think of people that use the adage “one big
bet per hour” for a Grinder or a Pro? This seems to be flawed
compared to my games or the ones I’ve watched you play.
BH:
Are you talking about no-limit Hold ‘Em?
LAB:
I’m
talking about no limit.
BH: Yeah, I think you might have gotten the one big bet an hour
from limit. Just like $20-$40 limit, a good hourly there is $40.
In the $5-10 No Limit game, you can make hundreds of dollars an hour.
LAB:
I see that batted around a lot in No-Limit discussions and I’ve
always thought that it was a misnomer to say the least, what kind
of rate
do you expect per hour out of your games?
BH:
I think bets per hours usually refer to limit. If you read that
stuff on
2+2 and other sites, you might come across the term that’s
PT big bet. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that. That’s
what’s called Poker Tracker Big Bet. And that’s basically,
online there’s a Poker Tracker software. So basically the way
a poker tracker looks at a game, because it wasn’t designed
specially for NL, is a big bet is double the big blind, because that’s
what it is in limit. So $20-40, the big blind if $20, a big bet is
$40 in $5-$10 NL, the big blind is $10, so a big bet is $20. So you
might look to make 4 to 5 poker tracker big bets an hour in that
game. Which would be about, 5 Poker tracker big bets would be $100,
so it would be 20 times 5. People are into that thing online. That
is a pretty good rate.
LAB:
Is there anything you would do to track your game? Let’s
just take my example. Someone bought in for $400, left with $1,000.
They played from 1-3 here, so 3 hours, and cleared $600. So, $200/hour.
Is that something where you look at and go ‘good you’re
getting a good earning rate and your game’s probably balanced’ or ‘gee,
you’re a lucky bastard, don’t count on that?’
BH:
In the 5-5 game, you gotta understand if you want to take the
game seriously,
you have to take very meticulous records. You have
to really keep up those records. And the thing is that I wouldn’t
start really thinking that you have an hourly, until you put in about
200 or 300 probably 500 at a minimum hours. You can play and win
$600 in 3 hours, your hourly in that game is not $200/hour – that
was that night.
LAB:
So for one night, $200/hr on that game is probably good, but
until you
can maintain that over a dozen sessions – or 200
sessions – at 5-8 hours a session, you don’t have a rate
yet, you shouldn’t rate yourself?
BH:
Yeah, I mean specifically in that game, I think if you can make
over $50/hour,
it’s a very good rate, it’s doable. That’s
the first level game where I think you can actually play for a living.
Because I think the $200 and $100, the rake is so high in proportion
in to what the pot size is; I don’t see how you can actually
beat those games. You might be able to beat the $200 for like $15
or $20 / hour, but I can’t really live on $15/$20 hour.
LAB: Can you explain the general thinking and tracking behind that
for someone to get an hourly rate and break-down? I know it seems
obvious, but I just want to get your take on that.
BH:
Basically I have an Excel spreadsheet where I track all the hours
I play
and then I have a net amount and then you divide the
net amount by the hours and you pretty much get an hourly. It sounds
relatively simple, but you gotta understand you have to have a large
pool of statistics to draw from. That’s why, if you play full
time, I like to do 500 hours minimum before you can start seeing
what your rate is.
LAB: Now, do you bring something with you to take notes on it, or
do you just bring it back and do it from memory on the spreadsheet?
BH:
I have a little notebook that I keep in my backpack that I’ll
write down my records on it an when I go back every night I write
it down in a pretty detailed spreadsheet.
LAB:
A lot of times the recreational player or part time player asks
for advice
and is inundated with information meant for top tier
players and full time professionals and it isn’t always the
right advice for them or it completely writes them out of the picture.
What is your recommendation for monitoring and judging your game
if you are a part time player.
BH:
Well, I think if you’re a recreational player, I mean
you have to look at what type of player you are, if you’re
a recreational player and you’re just here to have a good time,
you don’t care about the money, you don’t care if you
win or lose, you don’t need to take records. But, if you start
taking it seriously where you look it at like ok, maybe I can supplement
my job’s income on the side by playing poker a little bit,
then you have to . . . take records. It’s not that difficult,
it’s just at the end of the session you write what you’re
up and down and amount of hours you play if you really want to take
it seriously. I think that’s the first step, start keeping
good records.
LAB:
If you’re going to give somebody advice for the part-time
poker player, literally somebody who probably not going to put in
more then 10-20 hours a week. They’ve got a good bankroll that
they’ve probably taken from maybe some local tournament winnings
or somebody’s home game or made a little money in the cash
game and they’ve gotten together a couple thousand dollars
and they’re going to play 10-20 hours. How do you recommend
that they pick a game and obviously, keeping the records and everything,
how do you recommend that they pick their game of choice? Does that
make any sense? (Authors note: Could I be more confusing here?)
BH: How should they pick what table they play at?
LAB: How should they pick their game? Be it anything?
BH:
Again, if you’re a recreational player, you can play at
a level that. . .if you’ve got money coming in on the side
and you’ve no chance of going broke, you can play at whatever
level you think you’re comfortable at if you want to take a
step up. If you start playing where it’s your only job, then
you really have to look at bankroll considerations. I mean, I see
so many times where guys have other jobs they come in and play for
fun, and then they take a break because they’ve lost too much,
and then they come back and they get more money from their job. If
you’re playing full, full-time, I always thought you should
have at least 6 month expenses saved up and then in NL, you probably
should have a minimum of 20 buy-ins for whatever game you play. So,
If you’re playing the $500, er . . . 3-5 game and you bought
in for $500 all the time, you should probably have $10,000 plus whatever
it costs you to live for 6 months. You know if it was $2,000, that’s
another $12,000.
LAB:
Yeah, I think a lot of people get wound up a little bit short
and they
go “I got $10,000 and I’ve made this on poker,
and now I’m ready to say ‘screw my job.’ I only
make $10-15/hour look what I’m doing” and off they go
BH:
Yeah, because the thing is, there’s always going to be
variance in poker so if you start with a short bankroll, and let’s
say you have a couple of bad weeks. I don’t care how good of
a mental state you’re in, you’re probably not going to
be playing the same 5-6 thousand. Because you realize if you go broke
to nothing, you now lose your tool. You know now you might play scared
money. And that throws off your game. Because when you get to zero
you can’t play anymore.
LAB: Do you have any recommendations for somebody to get over those
bugs when they step up their game? .
BH:
I just think you don’t have to take as many chances. That’s
the other thing too when you’re a recreational player, people
feel the need to snap off bluffs, or make a big call or get mixed
up in a pot because they might only be playing 2 sessions a week
and you know it’s not really professionally, it’s just
to have a good time. Whereas if you’re playing everyday and
you put a real amount of hours into it, you can just wait for another
spot. So that’s the advantage people have of playing. So when
people are going for it, you got to realize there’s always
the next hand. You’re playing a lot of hands; its cash game
there’s no inherent need to build up a stack, so you can always
just pick another spot.
LAB:
So, specific example, you got in with your suited connectors,
(mid-level suited
connectors) limped in with them early, and then
there’s a $45 raise on the button and there’s 2 calls,
it’s alright to fold there even though you’re getting
pot odds, because you should pick your spots better, or . . .?
BH:
Not necessarily pre-flop, but when you’re in the middle
of a hand and you’ve got 1 pair and it’s $2,000 over
to you, the guy made a big raise. You know, you can pick a better
spot for your bankroll. If you want to protect your bankroll you
can pick a little bit better of a spot. You know you don’t
have to pick off somebody, you know what I mean? Bankroll really
shouldn’t affect your play in terms of if you’re going
to call there or not, but you’ve got to realize now that you’re
playing a lot every day there’s just other opportunities, you
know? If you take a 50.5% edge in this case, but it’s going
to cost you $3,000 and your roll is only $10,000, if you move you
can’t take an 85% edge later on because you have to step down
in the game because you have less money. Then you probably shouldn’t
take that. You don’t always have to take the smallest of edges
if they are much much larger edges down the line.
LAB: Good deal Bart. It looks like we are at the end of our cigars
and I know you have a game waiting for you inside. I want to thank
you for your time and I look forward to hearing more from you damn
near every night on Live @ the Bike.
COMMENT
ON THIS ARTICLE
You can find out more about Bart and Live at the Bike by visiting
their site directly at www.liveatthebike.com
---------------------
Matthew Waldron
Bicycle Casino
October 2006
